It has been a while since I felt compelled to write one of these reviews calling out Internet Marketing bullshit.
(I honestly don’t like doing it, and would prefer not to.)
But then it has been a while since I saw anything quite like this email I received today from Internet Marketing guru Russell Brunson, with the subject “want ME to write YOUR copy?”
Here’s the subject line.
And here’s the body of the email.
Now I’m not guessing that this email was spat out by the magic software. It’s well written.
The subject line makes you think, “Hey, really? Russ is gonna write my copy?” which gives you a reason to open the message.
And it gives you the familiar market trader patter of setting up the usual massive price, before saying, “But wait. Now you don’t have to pay a fortune!” plus “Usually this would be out of reach, but not anymore!” All good, tried and tested sales copy.
I don’t have a problem with any of that.
I don’t have a problem with the fact that Russell is claiming that someone had to give him equity in order to write copy for them. I’m sure that happened, although in reality it was probably far more of a happy joint venture.
No, my problem is with the proposition itself. The idea that ANY software can actually WRITE COPY.
It’s bullshit of the highest order. The only way I can really describe the supremacy of this bullshit is to borrow a line from Pulp Fiction.
But when you shoot it, you’ll know where that extra money went. Nothing wrong with the first two. It’s real, real, real, good shit. But this one’s a fuckin’ madman.
It’s not just bullshit. It’s fuckin’ batshit-crazy madman bullshit.
Why? Because anyone who’s written copy, whether it’s good or bad, knows how hard it is, how complex, and subtle it is. And how every piece is a brand new challenge.
The process is as human as things get! There is NO SOFTWARE that can WRITE good copy, period!
Good copy means fully and intimately understanding the audience, the product, the offer, the feeling you want to create, how to generate curiosity or intrigue or whatever hooks you’re going to use to get people to keep reading. It is really, REALLY difficult.
Red Smith was asked if turning out a daily column wasn’t quite a chore. …”Why, no,” dead-panned Red. “You simply sit down at the typewriter, open your veins, and bleed.”
So the idea that software can WRITE even basic copy effectively is preposterous. Why? Because there’s no software anywhere that can empathise with human emotions. End of story, goodnight, sweet prince.
So for Russell to say “THIS is the next best thing to having ME actually sitting in your office writing copy for you!” is not just hyperbole; it’s a blatant LIE. I bet my ass that ANY moderately talented copywriter can out-perform Russ’s machine.
So What CAN Software Do?
I’m not saying Russell hasn’t created something that can churn out words. Clearly he has.
(And he isn’t the first. Black-hat SEOs have been using software to chew up content and vomit it back out over the web for years. The bastards.)
But that’s not the same as copy. “Copy” is the result of a creative process. Humans can create things that elegantly balance the super-complex factors of psychology, emotion, imagination, and legal responsibility. Computers can’t, and won’t be able to for a while.
Let me predict what this magical “mechanical Turk” will turn out to be. It will be a template system that asks you a bunch of questions, then spins out some familiar-sounding wordage using your responses. And will miss the mark, by a long way.
If you’re going to go to the effort of answering all the questions you need, and you really don’t have the writing gene, you would be better off taking that time to put your answers down on a brief and giving it to a third-rate copywriter on Fiverr. I’m certain you you’ll get better results.
What Else is Out There?
A quick search revealed this article by Bob Bly that talks about an alternative software solution called Persado, which had just (July 2015) raised $21 million to take their product to market.
Persado seems to be far closer to the kind of AI copy-writing software that you might be expecting. It uses algorithms to help it compose a range of copy, but even then it can’t actually write.
From the article…
But, as it turns out, the WSJ misinterprets what Persado’s software is really doing. So let me set the record straight, based on a recent interview I conducted with Persado CMO David Atlas.
First, the software does not write copy in the sense that you or I might write a sales letter, ad, landing page or brochure. It cannot do what we copywriters do — yet.
Atlas explained that the Persado algorithm is limited to creating persuasive sentences with a maximum length of 600 characters.
So far, Persado is mostly used to write email subject lines, Facebook ads, text messaging for mobile marketing and short-form landing pages.
“Persado solves a mathematical word puzzle to figure out the best sentence,” says Atlas. “It automates the creation of small sentences optimized for persuasion in digital marketing that drives action.”
What’s Your Problem, Ben?
I love to see people innovating, solving problems in new ways, and making money selling those solutions. Bravo to every entrepreneur and inventor out there who does that.
But when I see people peddling so-called “solutions” that promise to solve problems that are as challenging — and as important — as marketing, when those “solutions” are merely patterns that have proved effective in a few cases, and pitching them as UNIVERSALLY effective, that’s where I lose my shit.
This is me about to lose my shit and turn green.
I’ve railed against cookie-cutter marketing solutions in the past, and I’ll keep doing it as long as people are losing money on them.
For example, I literally just got off a call today with a group of people who are promoting a technology that could transform the world. They invested time in studying (wait for it) Jeff Walker’s Product Launch Formula, and followed the system thoroughly.
No sales. Not one. The previous 2 times they sold this product, they sold over ten units (it’s a fairly high-priced training). This time, after months of work to follow PLF, zilch.
Why? Because Product Launch Formula doesn’t always work! There is NO FORMULA, there is no special sauce, no cure-all, no magic fucking beans, no answer to YOUR marketing challenge… because YOUR marketing challenge is UNIQUE!
Anyone who says there is a one-size-fits-all solution to marketing is
a) lying, and
b) about to try to sell you one.
So yes, Russell Brunson’s team have created some software. It is probably the result of months of cutting up previously successful copy from a wide range of campaigns. It has probably taken months of programming. It will certainly spit out copy in response to what you give it.
And it will fail.
Disclaimer
I would like to see this software in action. If it really can write great copy, I will eat my hat, retract this post, and will go on record proclaiming Russell Brunson as the saviour of marketing.
(Update: I’ve now seen it in action, and it cannot create great copy. My hat is safe, hooray!)
p.s.
Image from Russell’s G+ page: https://plus.google.com/+RussellBrunsonHQ
I’ve got nothing against Russ as a person. The first time I came across him was a couple of years ago when I saw a video of a presentation he gave, and I found him immediately likeable and authentic.
I can’t remember the details of what he was talking about, but I remember sharing it with my group at the time saying, “I think this guy could be one of the good guys” because it definitely struck me with its integrity. And I know Russ has worked very closely with Dan Kennedy, who’s one of the smartest marketing minds alive.
So, before the trolls are released (as they always are) let me say this isn’t an attack on Russ, it’s a comment on the prevailing habit that many Internet marketers exhibit to extrapolate a product or service’s ability that works in some cases and claim that it could work for everyone. It can’t. Marketing isn’t like that. Sorry.
It’s called “Funnel Scripts“, costs $297 (at least that’s the “buy it now before it disappears” price offered at the end of the webinar), and it does exactly what I thought it would…
You enter a few details (main benefit 1, main benefit 2, main obstacle, etc.) and it spits out basically a document that slots your words into many combinations of boilerplate text (along with a bunch of other outputs like webinar presentations). So it’s basically a “fill-in-the-gaps” copy spinner.
My Conclusions
For what it is, Funnel Scripts seems very good. But the problem is, what it is is not what it is being pitched in this email. It cannot replace a skilled copywriter.
The makers do not promise that Funnel Scripts will produce your final copy. In the webinar, they stress that all copy needs to be edited and tweaked, so you should expect to rework it to some extent.
If all you want is basic, generic, shallow, and narrow sales copy, this product WILL spit that out for you more quickly than writing it yourself, and probably more cheaply than hiring someone to write it for you.
If your market is relatively naive and dumb, that may be cost-effective, so go for it. If your market is sophisticated enough to have seen a range of similar generic sales copy before, it may not work so well.
If you know beyond doubt that your offer does not deserve its own custom strategy, this could work for you. But I can’t think of any offer I’ve worked on recently that fits that description. Even if you need to do something as basic as tell your offering’s origin story in an original way, you’re way beyond the scope of Funnel Scripts.
If your product and/or your market require particular insight (beyond the basic, brash, bold claim aimed at the unsophisticated impulse buyer), that will require close attention and the software can’t help you.
The end result will never be as good as copy that has been expertly crafted. The reason is that this software solution provides, by its nature, what is basically a relatively dumb process. As I’ve said, nobody can write software that can actually write copy, make it fit-for-purpose. All it can do (at least at this price) is automate a fill-in-the-gaps template.
To propose that this software means you don’t need to be a good copywriter or hire a good copywriter, or that it’s anything LIKE having a good copywriter write your stuff is disingenuous beyond measure, at least for 99% of us.
In other words, if you’re selling magic beans, go for it.
It seems like a lot of these marketers will do anything to get a sale. Even if it is too good to be true. I wonder if they actually believe in their products or if they’re just pushing to make an extra buck…
I’ve been getting more and more into copywriting and marketing, and I agree 100% with you. There is no way that software will be able to capture the right feeling and language needed to speak to a specific audience. At least not without some heavy editing.
It took me a little more than 6 months to figure out the story method of writing, but a lot of relationship/audience building I feel is built on a personal level, not just spewing out constant sales copy…. just my 2 cents. Keep up the great work Ben!
Thanks Jonathan. I keep coming back to the view that strategy and copywriting are the key to all marketing. In fact, the copy is the strategy made flesh. If the strategy isn’t there, or if it’s muddled, that’s what you’ll get in your copy.
Too late. Internet Marketers all over the place are already way ahead, they …
(1) Use the “1-click” method to generate 99 zillion dollars…
(2) …while on a boat/beach/expensive resort, with a bikini clad lass smiling ear to ear by their side
(3) Utilizing cheap labour from overseas, which they brag about to their subscribers (those cheap laborers are the ones doing the “clicking”).
P.S.: Software that writes copy is the tip of the iceberg.. . The internet desperately needs a resurgence of lord Salty Droid.
Good to see you back in fighting form. I have been trying to automate my area of business for many years. Tough stuff. As soon as you think you’ve nailed down the rules, someone changes them. I think humans are still necessary. As they say in software development … “the best optimizer is between your ears”.
I’ve been working myself on creating a digital product and have taken longer than expected because browsing through all the BS out there is not easy. I closely follow your opinions, studied with Ramit Sethi, read James Altucher, Kevin Hillstrom, and Digital Marketer. I see these people as my unofficial group of mentors and I respect each one of them, for a single reason: I get the same message from each of you (in my own words) “it takes a lot of work, here’s what you can do. There’s no easy fix for hard work.”
One of the first ones I found was Russel and has always been the same. My mistake, your gain/My server crashed here’s your 24-hour window/Steal my emails. It’s like time-share all over again. I have no doubts he’s good, but when I saw a video about ” how this couple saved their marriage with a funnel” I knew it had gone too far.
I think I finally get the ethical marketing approach you’re promoting and I have to say I agree with it.
There’s a similar service in the US called Rocket Lawyer. They have templates for certain legal docs and you simply answer questions, and at the end, the software spits whatever document you need. For $49/month it seems like a sweet deal until you need that piece of paper to go to court.
Too many people offer “copy-paste my templates for a 7 figure business”. No, it is not true. You can’t copy-paste success, even less you can use software to automate your copywriting and be successful. Are you going to borrow his stories? or his statistics or opinions?
I believe the reputation of digital products entrepreneurs is going to take a massive blow sooner or later because of these guys. I also believe we’re entering the economy of super-niched digital products.
My faint hope is that the market actually shifts as buyers get more mature and smarter about what they’re buying. If that happens, people may start calling “Bullshit!” more often and STOP falling for these “magic pill” offers.
Sadly, selling magic pills / beans / solutions WORKS. It makes people money because folk will always be looking for a cheat, shortcut, or hack.
That’s why my mission right now is to build an alternative approach to providing marketing services. I can’t say any more right now, as it’s at very early stages. But my gut tells me the world is ready for marketing intelligence and professional services that are honest, equitable and transparent.
I’m not saying that there’s not also a place in the market for magic beans either! I kind of wish we could see the back of this, but the fact is that Russell and a lot of other marketers DO deliver great value to some of their buyers some of the time. I know that. My problem is when folk take those occasional wins and claim they’ve found THE secret that ALWAYS works. That’s when you lose me.
When I first heard serious Internet marketers discussing this a couple of weeks ago, I was taken aback by their even seriously discussing that it might work.
The image that came to mind was the Tin Man from The Wizard of Oz. What he needed – what was missing – was a Heart. Without it, the Tin Man couldn’t live a full life – nor write copy. And neither can a copywriter who relies on computer-generated copy. It has no Heart – and everyone who reads it will be able to detect that.
The copy won’t connect with their Heart when that is missing from its creation.
Ben, a good article, but it’s rather tragic that you even had to waste your time writing such a thing, because it should be inherently obvious to anyone and everyone that software can’t write worthwhile copy. Though maybe it can assemble meaningless drivel from user inputs that meets SEO needs and brings people to a website only to find the content is drivel.
But then I looked at Russell’s original email and it’s bordering on illiterate. ” Is it just me, or is the HARDEST part of creating an awesome funnel… is THE COPY”. Is…is. What? And then “In the past, most copywriters charge $15k”. Er, if you’re talking about the past, you need to use the past tense Russell—”charged”. It’s not rocket surgery.
So the question is, did Russell use his own software to produce this illiterate drivel, or is he illiterate all on his own?
What is manifestly clear is that he has no interest in producing actual copy, only words that excite search engines that drive traffic to click funnels that generate small profit/large traffic profits. It’s the information equivalent of pyramid marketing. His clients are not the least bit interested in copy either, only in making profits for themselves.
As I see it, he and all his audience are simply pariahs leveraging off the bored or stupid, and their attempts to generate funnels and would-be copy just create masses of noise on the web where content should be, and the decreasing signal-to-noise ratio just makes the world a worse place for all of us.
Thanks Clive. Having watched the sales presentation, I’m 100% sure the software was NOT used to write the email. Because, if it had, you would have spotted it a mile off.
As I’ve said in my conclusions, the software could save a lot of time in some circumstances where what the seller needs is exactly what you’ve described… “leveraging off the bored or stupid”. Ill-educated buyers who are ready to fall for a magic beans promise.
G’day Ben,
Your passionate missive goes to the heart of the matter.
It’s an ethical issue!
Whilst “ethics” (having them or not) will NOT singularly solve the (sales and marketing) problem that people are desparate to fix, a lack of ethics will certainly guarantee the wheels fall off their trolly at some point! Usually sooner than they wish!
Ethical marketing simply, makes the most sense!
Keep the lighthouse fire alight bro!
Thank you.
Darryl
*sigh* As a long-time copywriter, I’ve had a few clients who would probably be quite happy with robo-copy. Let’s just say I’ll never take a nutritional supplement startup on as a client again. “Can you research what makes a good XX supplement, and tell us what it is, and then basically say that?” is NOT what I want to hear, ever. Anyway.
“…my gut tells me the world is ready for marketing intelligence and professional services that are honest, equitable and transparent.” My gut agrees. I try and market myself that way, and I’ve been able to attract clients, for the most part, who agree and are attracted to that specifically. (I really need to get on with making my new website…)
But, I still get people who want me to be familiar with methods, like PLF – they really believe in the magic sauce approach. I try to explain that the magic sauce is simply being honest and human. Unfortunately, this is not anywhere near as exciting to them.
My hope is that, if AI becomes good enough to write decent copy, it simultaneously becomes sentient and tells this sort of internet marketer to bugger off, then starts an AI collective that pumps out dystopian novels and comics instead. 😉
I purchased Funnel Scripts software because I was working on a script for my upcoming webinar. It is amazing. It saved me days of work. Does it replace a professional copywriter? Of course not. But it’s turning me into a much better one. The software and training (included in the package) provides coaching and writing prompts to help you think about how to structure your copy. It’s a hell of a lot better than staring at a blank page and helped to get the job done faster.
Your statement about AI replacing decent copy is actually happening now. The Associated Press uses AI to do sports reporting, especially in minor league baseball.
I appreciate that you share your experience and knowledge, but I dislike how you discredit people that are creating and trying to make products that improve processes or make people’s lives better. We’re all just trying and no one’s perfect. I have no affiliation with Click Funnels or Russell Brunson (other than being an affiliate by default as all subscribers are eligible). I don’t agree that anyone should ditch their website, but a website should not be a barrier to making money either.
There’s a wise proverb that says there are two ways to have the tallest building in your town. One is to spend the time to build your building brick by brick until you have the tallest building. The other is to tear down other buildings. You have an audience and talent, so focus on making cool shit instead of slamming people who are doers. You’re better than that, man.
Actually, I take issue with your assertions. I’m not tearing down Russell or his product. I’ve looked into it, and I can see how and when it could save some people a lot of time and money. I want to give Russell and his team full credit for that.
My criticism is reserved for dishonourable or unethical practices in the promotion of products. I’m not happy to see people bending the truth to the point of lying. It’s the line between persuasion and manipulation. You may be okay with that, or you may draw the line at a different point, and that’s fine. I can only ask you to respect my position in the same way.
I didn’t see lies or dishonesty in the marketing of this product. Sure, the headline certainly grabbed my attention, and the end product was not Russell writing copy for me. But he didn’t ask for my money at that point. The email led to a webinar where he demonstrated the product, which did exactly as advertised in the webinar.
In addition to the software, you receive monthly training with Jim Edwards, one of the top copywriters in the world. That was way beyond what I had expected. During one of the trainings Jim helped a dentist from Chile write amazing headlines and email copy. To me, this was better than hiring a copywriter; Jim is teaching me to be one.
If anyone actually believed that they were getting a professional copywriter, or Russell to write their copy in exchange for money, they would have received a refund. This is a common marketing practice called the trojan horse technique.
Accusing someone of being a liar, dishonest and unethical in business is a big accusation.
I’m merely suggesting you channel your talents in a more positive way. Providing solutions is much harder than providing criticism. As a marketing strategist, how about demonstrating to your audience how you would rewrite his email?
I think that offering your audience a course is a much more positive way of helping them understand good marketing techniques. If someone goes through your course, implements the strategies you recommend, but doesn’t see results, will you be okay with them accusing you of being a fraud, failure or liar? If your strategies have made you a lot of money (or others that have implemented them), I would tell that person it’s not just the strategies, it’s how you implement them.
No one claims to have the one-size-fits all solution. They’re offering a solution that has worked for them and many others. Just as your course is probably not the be-all-end-all of marketing courses, I appreciate and applaud you for sharing your expertise and talents with people who need them. I sincerely hope you don’t receive the type of criticism you’ve been spewing. I wish you much success with it.
Thanks Ann, I appreciate your input, and I’m happy to clarify exactly what concerns me.
I think the original email is claiming to offer a blanket solution (“will write your funnel copy for you”), and claims that it’s the next best thing to having Russell write your copy for you. Let’s take those in turn.
What’s wrong (in my view) of saying the software can “write your … copy for you”? Because it can’t, as I’ve explained.
It can churn out rote patterns with emotive words, but that is not (in my mind) COPY. Sure, it’s words formed into viable phrases, and if your objective is persuading any visitor to buy into something it may even be effective, but it lacks some important elements like ANY real appreciation of the target visitor, the product itself, or your brand. To label any computer-spun wordplay as “copy” does a disservice to real copy, and real copywriters.
In my view.
Software cannot write decent copy, and to claim it can is disingenuous. I appreciate you don’t see lies, but I certainly see, let’s say, a bending of the truth.
Second, let’s look at the one-size-fits-all solution. I’d like to look at this in the context of ClickFunnels’ broader campaign. This is the brand that is telling EVERYONE (opens in new tab)…
Abandon your website now for your business to survive.
So their ads are telling every business owner, wherever they are, and whatever their context, that their website is a liability and what they really need is a funnel. Let’s be clear, ClickFunnels is being presented as THE SINGLE SOLUTION that is being offered ACROSS THE BOARD. In other words, “one-size-fits-all”.
And then the software is touted as being entirely capable of writing the copy for this funnel that your business desperately needs in order to survive.
I call bullshit.
Now, shall we discuss your personal attack on me… “Spewing” criticism, a word that suggests my opinions are like vomit or sewage?
You ask if, after going through a course of mine, someone doesn’t “see results”, will I accept being labelled a “fraud, failure, or liar”?
The simple answer is: Yes.
IF I claim that any process, method, or solution I sell WILL deliver ANY specific result for ANYONE, and it doesn’t deliver on my promise, that makes me a fraud and a liar, does it not?? That’s like the definition of a fraudster!
Or am I missing something?
Let me tell you, I’ve had many veiled threats and personal abuse as a result of the critiques I’ve posted about some of these marketing tactics (note, it’s the methods I’m attacking, not the individuals as people), and I don’t care. I’m a big boy, I can handle it.
And if I say or do anything that is misleading, dishonest, or even if I over-reach on my marketing messages, I expect friends or strangers to pull me up on it. That would be doing me a favour, because I’m someone who cares deeply about integrity and honesty.
In fact, I choose to make my living by delivering on my WORD, by actually delivering marketing strategies for clients, and teaching others how to do the same. As a person of integrity, I aim never to claim an outcome that I can’t deliver.
So yes, if I ever fail to meet that standard, please pull me up. Point it out, and I will make amends.
But I suspect that’s not what you want, is it? I suspect that you, along with many others who are enraptured by the easy money that information marketing offers, and who benefit from the lawless Wild West marketplace, don’t want to see standards, integrity, honesty.. Those pesky things just get in the way of shifting more shit, don’t they?
And anyone who has anything to say about it is instantly branded a hater, negative, jealous of success, blah blah blah… I don’t buy it. I respect your opinions, and I absolutely respect and defend your right to voice them. But I disagree fundamentally over the issue of whether marketers’ tactics should be questioned in public. Happy to agree to disagree on that.
If you’ve read my post all the way through, you’ll have seen this:
I love to see people innovating, solving problems in new ways, and making money selling those solutions. Bravo to every entrepreneur and inventor out there who does that.
All strength to the doers, to the innovators, to the people who get off their arses and make the world a better place. All I’m trying to do here is to help keep my fellow entrepreneurs and investors honest.
This issue obviously raises some critical points, and it directly opens up the topic which has bothered me ever since I had the first inkling that this Internet community is a revolution, and a game changing innovation.
This topic is the essential nature of ‘Sales’ online. We have seen over the past 20 years many players emerge and offer miraculous solutions to the primary objective of: How ordinary people can leverage the internet to change their lives, and sell enormous volumes of “whatever it is”‘
I have learned a lot, and witnessed a lot of fast acting innovators obviously make a lot of money from people out there who just want to participate and gain the advantage of Internet Marketing.
But for many of them, it is way too difficult to gain the skills, so they are always open to ‘technical wizardry’-that product which will open the magic gate to ‘Oz’ and enable them to retire on their yacht while the money piles up in their Cayman Islands bank accounts 😉
So I think it is a binary thing, digital naivety, and basic human greed which fuels this pernicious ‘Wild West’ unregulated chicanery.
I’m with you Ben on this one. Integrity and ethics are not just idealistic objectives, they are the code by which seek to live and act.
Copy cannot be produced by software, there are no short cuts to ‘Quality’, perhaps eventually the natural process of experience will see the internet marketers who prey on the innate desire for easy wealth die out.
In any case, good on you for calling ‘B.S on this, Click Funnels is obviously very popular and has a well funded marketing campaign, but it troubles me on some level.
I remember being very off put by that webinar. It has actually turned me off to everything Russell Brunson, maybe it was just the enthusiasm in his voice while he lied about copywriting.}
Because here’s something I’ve noticed about copy-software. Whenever it comes to the copy ABOUT the copy-script, there’s usually authentic copy that was clearly written by a trained writer.
For example in the Funnel Scripts webinar, they show you the fill in the blanks.
And then they fill in those blanks with real copy which required skilled human effort to write.
(And certainly didn’t get puked out by some machine.)
So when you put in good copy, which will then fill in the blanks with good copy.
You look at the end result which is good copy. But the part that made it good copy, wasn’t the software, or the script, but the unique input of the skilled writer.
Basically if the writer was shit, the software couldn’t save them.
This is something that is often overlooked, and clearly never pointed out during the presentations.
-Andy
P.S.
One time I saw a facebook ad selling copy-software (I forget exactly what product specifically.) – and I posted a question that read “Did you use the software to write this facebook ad?”
The question was ignored, and then deleted.
WOW! that was an interesting debate, but hey everyone is entitled to their take on things, so moving forward. I actually attended the webinar and although I am far from a marketing guru, I immediately noticed that this is apart of click-funnel and I asked a question that never got answered by Russell.
I am interested in pre-built sales funnel copy and blue prints that I can use as a guide. I did much research and found that Insta Builder 2.0 and Thrive could work for me as a newbie.
I would say that my headlines and all content would need to match my target audience which I think myself or anyone else could figure out. The bottom line is at least if I try alongside of some pre-built templates I may one day be a copy writing pro “at least” to do what need to be done for my business.
Yes I agree it will take time, but I think that is the best process “learning & growing”. I also believe that the more a person learns their audience- that becomes their guide to writing content that captures that target audience. I have found that when we opt for complete quick fixes we never really learn how to do things on our own nor do we ever really learn our business.
Let’s say that Funnel-Script crashes and they take it off the market, so for all those that built their whole business from that software are wondering what the next steps are, although I would hope they were smart enough to learn from the templates enough that they can finally write their own copy, “Just Saying”.
This is just my 2 cents as a newbie to marketing funnels.
Thank you so much Ben for this post. As a copywriter, it takes 20-40 hours to do RESEARCH alone for a long-form sales copy. And it takes 3-4 weeks to write a really good sales page. There will be no software or system that can humanise and speak to the target audience’s pain points.
It’s not like you can write a novel using just a software.
I should start this out with “Thanks, Captain Obvious,” but obviously the truth is not obvious to everyone out there. Like my last client, who said he didn’t need my services anymore, because a firm in India had told him they could write copy as part of their IT services. Besides, he added, “People don’t read copy anyway.” The truth is anyone can write “copy.” But as a successful copywriter for more than 40 years, with billions of product sold and more than 100 awards, I’m telling you copy is not copy unless it touches a relevant emotion in the reader/viewer/whatever. And it’s not good copy unless it motivates him/her/it to do something about it. No software can do that. No software will ever be able to do that. So… Phooey on this Funnel shit or anything else that says it will. However, it opens a door… I’m just starting to build a website at rentarewriter.com, because all this software written copy is going to need some drastic rewriting. Silk purse out of sow’s ear, maybe? Anyway, thanks for the article.
I am so glad I did a little research before I dropped a hundred bucks on Closers Copy. I, for some reason, thought it would pertussis make me a better copywriter. Give me tools I didn’t have. Makes it easier to get it right. But now I know there is no way way to get it right. It’s work. Period. And work I happen to love. Besides, from what I’ve been told I’m pretty good already. Thanks for the savings!
The process is as human as things get! There is NO SOFTWARE that can WRITE good copy, period!
Let me predict what this magical “mechanical Turk” will turn out to be. It will be a template system that asks you a bunch of questions, then spins out some familiar-sounding wordage using your responses. And will miss the mark, by a long way.
I would like to see this software in action. If it really can write great copy, I will eat my hat, retract this post, and will go on record proclaiming Russell Brunson as the saviour of marketing.
Spot on mate!
It seems like a lot of these marketers will do anything to get a sale. Even if it is too good to be true. I wonder if they actually believe in their products or if they’re just pushing to make an extra buck…
I’ve been getting more and more into copywriting and marketing, and I agree 100% with you. There is no way that software will be able to capture the right feeling and language needed to speak to a specific audience. At least not without some heavy editing.
It took me a little more than 6 months to figure out the story method of writing, but a lot of relationship/audience building I feel is built on a personal level, not just spewing out constant sales copy…. just my 2 cents. Keep up the great work Ben!
Thanks Jonathan. I keep coming back to the view that strategy and copywriting are the key to all marketing. In fact, the copy is the strategy made flesh. If the strategy isn’t there, or if it’s muddled, that’s what you’ll get in your copy.
Entertaining piece, Ben. Why don’t you tell us what you really think?
🙂
Too late. Internet Marketers all over the place are already way ahead, they …
(1) Use the “1-click” method to generate 99 zillion dollars…
(2) …while on a boat/beach/expensive resort, with a bikini clad lass smiling ear to ear by their side
(3) Utilizing cheap labour from overseas, which they brag about to their subscribers (those cheap laborers are the ones doing the “clicking”).
P.S.: Software that writes copy is the tip of the iceberg.. . The internet desperately needs a resurgence of lord Salty Droid.
Good to see you back in fighting form. I have been trying to automate my area of business for many years. Tough stuff. As soon as you think you’ve nailed down the rules, someone changes them. I think humans are still necessary. As they say in software development … “the best optimizer is between your ears”.
The only rule is, there are no rules. That’s what’s so awful, and so intriguing, about trying to sell anything.
I’ve been working myself on creating a digital product and have taken longer than expected because browsing through all the BS out there is not easy. I closely follow your opinions, studied with Ramit Sethi, read James Altucher, Kevin Hillstrom, and Digital Marketer. I see these people as my unofficial group of mentors and I respect each one of them, for a single reason: I get the same message from each of you (in my own words) “it takes a lot of work, here’s what you can do. There’s no easy fix for hard work.”
One of the first ones I found was Russel and has always been the same. My mistake, your gain/My server crashed here’s your 24-hour window/Steal my emails. It’s like time-share all over again. I have no doubts he’s good, but when I saw a video about ” how this couple saved their marriage with a funnel” I knew it had gone too far.
I think I finally get the ethical marketing approach you’re promoting and I have to say I agree with it.
There’s a similar service in the US called Rocket Lawyer. They have templates for certain legal docs and you simply answer questions, and at the end, the software spits whatever document you need. For $49/month it seems like a sweet deal until you need that piece of paper to go to court.
Too many people offer “copy-paste my templates for a 7 figure business”. No, it is not true. You can’t copy-paste success, even less you can use software to automate your copywriting and be successful. Are you going to borrow his stories? or his statistics or opinions?
I believe the reputation of digital products entrepreneurs is going to take a massive blow sooner or later because of these guys. I also believe we’re entering the economy of super-niched digital products.
I hope
Hi Alejandro, thanks for getting in touch.
My faint hope is that the market actually shifts as buyers get more mature and smarter about what they’re buying. If that happens, people may start calling “Bullshit!” more often and STOP falling for these “magic pill” offers.
Sadly, selling magic pills / beans / solutions WORKS. It makes people money because folk will always be looking for a cheat, shortcut, or hack.
That’s why my mission right now is to build an alternative approach to providing marketing services. I can’t say any more right now, as it’s at very early stages. But my gut tells me the world is ready for marketing intelligence and professional services that are honest, equitable and transparent.
I’m not saying that there’s not also a place in the market for magic beans either! I kind of wish we could see the back of this, but the fact is that Russell and a lot of other marketers DO deliver great value to some of their buyers some of the time. I know that. My problem is when folk take those occasional wins and claim they’ve found THE secret that ALWAYS works. That’s when you lose me.
When I first heard serious Internet marketers discussing this a couple of weeks ago, I was taken aback by their even seriously discussing that it might work.
The image that came to mind was the Tin Man from The Wizard of Oz. What he needed – what was missing – was a Heart. Without it, the Tin Man couldn’t live a full life – nor write copy. And neither can a copywriter who relies on computer-generated copy. It has no Heart – and everyone who reads it will be able to detect that.
The copy won’t connect with their Heart when that is missing from its creation.
Love the analogy Donald, thank you.
Ben, a good article, but it’s rather tragic that you even had to waste your time writing such a thing, because it should be inherently obvious to anyone and everyone that software can’t write worthwhile copy. Though maybe it can assemble meaningless drivel from user inputs that meets SEO needs and brings people to a website only to find the content is drivel.
But then I looked at Russell’s original email and it’s bordering on illiterate. ” Is it just me, or is the HARDEST part of creating an awesome funnel… is THE COPY”. Is…is. What? And then “In the past, most copywriters charge $15k”. Er, if you’re talking about the past, you need to use the past tense Russell—”charged”. It’s not rocket surgery.
So the question is, did Russell use his own software to produce this illiterate drivel, or is he illiterate all on his own?
What is manifestly clear is that he has no interest in producing actual copy, only words that excite search engines that drive traffic to click funnels that generate small profit/large traffic profits. It’s the information equivalent of pyramid marketing. His clients are not the least bit interested in copy either, only in making profits for themselves.
As I see it, he and all his audience are simply pariahs leveraging off the bored or stupid, and their attempts to generate funnels and would-be copy just create masses of noise on the web where content should be, and the decreasing signal-to-noise ratio just makes the world a worse place for all of us.
.
Keep up the good work, Ben!
Thanks Clive. Having watched the sales presentation, I’m 100% sure the software was NOT used to write the email. Because, if it had, you would have spotted it a mile off.
As I’ve said in my conclusions, the software could save a lot of time in some circumstances where what the seller needs is exactly what you’ve described… “leveraging off the bored or stupid”. Ill-educated buyers who are ready to fall for a magic beans promise.
G’day Ben,
Your passionate missive goes to the heart of the matter.
It’s an ethical issue!
Whilst “ethics” (having them or not) will NOT singularly solve the (sales and marketing) problem that people are desparate to fix, a lack of ethics will certainly guarantee the wheels fall off their trolly at some point! Usually sooner than they wish!
Ethical marketing simply, makes the most sense!
Keep the lighthouse fire alight bro!
Thank you.
Darryl
Thanks Darryl. I hope to prove that case at some point.
*sigh* As a long-time copywriter, I’ve had a few clients who would probably be quite happy with robo-copy. Let’s just say I’ll never take a nutritional supplement startup on as a client again. “Can you research what makes a good XX supplement, and tell us what it is, and then basically say that?” is NOT what I want to hear, ever. Anyway.
“…my gut tells me the world is ready for marketing intelligence and professional services that are honest, equitable and transparent.” My gut agrees. I try and market myself that way, and I’ve been able to attract clients, for the most part, who agree and are attracted to that specifically. (I really need to get on with making my new website…)
But, I still get people who want me to be familiar with methods, like PLF – they really believe in the magic sauce approach. I try to explain that the magic sauce is simply being honest and human. Unfortunately, this is not anywhere near as exciting to them.
My hope is that, if AI becomes good enough to write decent copy, it simultaneously becomes sentient and tells this sort of internet marketer to bugger off, then starts an AI collective that pumps out dystopian novels and comics instead. 😉
I like you Tracy 😀
I purchased Funnel Scripts software because I was working on a script for my upcoming webinar. It is amazing. It saved me days of work. Does it replace a professional copywriter? Of course not. But it’s turning me into a much better one. The software and training (included in the package) provides coaching and writing prompts to help you think about how to structure your copy. It’s a hell of a lot better than staring at a blank page and helped to get the job done faster.
Your statement about AI replacing decent copy is actually happening now. The Associated Press uses AI to do sports reporting, especially in minor league baseball.
I appreciate that you share your experience and knowledge, but I dislike how you discredit people that are creating and trying to make products that improve processes or make people’s lives better. We’re all just trying and no one’s perfect. I have no affiliation with Click Funnels or Russell Brunson (other than being an affiliate by default as all subscribers are eligible). I don’t agree that anyone should ditch their website, but a website should not be a barrier to making money either.
There’s a wise proverb that says there are two ways to have the tallest building in your town. One is to spend the time to build your building brick by brick until you have the tallest building. The other is to tear down other buildings. You have an audience and talent, so focus on making cool shit instead of slamming people who are doers. You’re better than that, man.
Hi Ann. Thanks for your input.
Actually, I take issue with your assertions. I’m not tearing down Russell or his product. I’ve looked into it, and I can see how and when it could save some people a lot of time and money. I want to give Russell and his team full credit for that.
My criticism is reserved for dishonourable or unethical practices in the promotion of products. I’m not happy to see people bending the truth to the point of lying. It’s the line between persuasion and manipulation. You may be okay with that, or you may draw the line at a different point, and that’s fine. I can only ask you to respect my position in the same way.
I didn’t see lies or dishonesty in the marketing of this product. Sure, the headline certainly grabbed my attention, and the end product was not Russell writing copy for me. But he didn’t ask for my money at that point. The email led to a webinar where he demonstrated the product, which did exactly as advertised in the webinar.
In addition to the software, you receive monthly training with Jim Edwards, one of the top copywriters in the world. That was way beyond what I had expected. During one of the trainings Jim helped a dentist from Chile write amazing headlines and email copy. To me, this was better than hiring a copywriter; Jim is teaching me to be one.
If anyone actually believed that they were getting a professional copywriter, or Russell to write their copy in exchange for money, they would have received a refund. This is a common marketing practice called the trojan horse technique.
Accusing someone of being a liar, dishonest and unethical in business is a big accusation.
I’m merely suggesting you channel your talents in a more positive way. Providing solutions is much harder than providing criticism. As a marketing strategist, how about demonstrating to your audience how you would rewrite his email?
I think that offering your audience a course is a much more positive way of helping them understand good marketing techniques. If someone goes through your course, implements the strategies you recommend, but doesn’t see results, will you be okay with them accusing you of being a fraud, failure or liar? If your strategies have made you a lot of money (or others that have implemented them), I would tell that person it’s not just the strategies, it’s how you implement them.
No one claims to have the one-size-fits all solution. They’re offering a solution that has worked for them and many others. Just as your course is probably not the be-all-end-all of marketing courses, I appreciate and applaud you for sharing your expertise and talents with people who need them. I sincerely hope you don’t receive the type of criticism you’ve been spewing. I wish you much success with it.
Thanks Ann, I appreciate your input, and I’m happy to clarify exactly what concerns me.
I think the original email is claiming to offer a blanket solution (“will write your funnel copy for you”), and claims that it’s the next best thing to having Russell write your copy for you. Let’s take those in turn.
What’s wrong (in my view) of saying the software can “write your … copy for you”? Because it can’t, as I’ve explained.
It can churn out rote patterns with emotive words, but that is not (in my mind) COPY. Sure, it’s words formed into viable phrases, and if your objective is persuading any visitor to buy into something it may even be effective, but it lacks some important elements like ANY real appreciation of the target visitor, the product itself, or your brand. To label any computer-spun wordplay as “copy” does a disservice to real copy, and real copywriters.
In my view.
Software cannot write decent copy, and to claim it can is disingenuous. I appreciate you don’t see lies, but I certainly see, let’s say, a bending of the truth.
Second, let’s look at the one-size-fits-all solution. I’d like to look at this in the context of ClickFunnels’ broader campaign. This is the brand that is telling EVERYONE (opens in new tab)…
So their ads are telling every business owner, wherever they are, and whatever their context, that their website is a liability and what they really need is a funnel. Let’s be clear, ClickFunnels is being presented as THE SINGLE SOLUTION that is being offered ACROSS THE BOARD. In other words, “one-size-fits-all”.
And then the software is touted as being entirely capable of writing the copy for this funnel that your business desperately needs in order to survive.
I call bullshit.
Now, shall we discuss your personal attack on me… “Spewing” criticism, a word that suggests my opinions are like vomit or sewage?
You ask if, after going through a course of mine, someone doesn’t “see results”, will I accept being labelled a “fraud, failure, or liar”?
The simple answer is: Yes.
IF I claim that any process, method, or solution I sell WILL deliver ANY specific result for ANYONE, and it doesn’t deliver on my promise, that makes me a fraud and a liar, does it not?? That’s like the definition of a fraudster!
Or am I missing something?
Let me tell you, I’ve had many veiled threats and personal abuse as a result of the critiques I’ve posted about some of these marketing tactics (note, it’s the methods I’m attacking, not the individuals as people), and I don’t care. I’m a big boy, I can handle it.
And if I say or do anything that is misleading, dishonest, or even if I over-reach on my marketing messages, I expect friends or strangers to pull me up on it. That would be doing me a favour, because I’m someone who cares deeply about integrity and honesty.
In fact, I choose to make my living by delivering on my WORD, by actually delivering marketing strategies for clients, and teaching others how to do the same. As a person of integrity, I aim never to claim an outcome that I can’t deliver.
So yes, if I ever fail to meet that standard, please pull me up. Point it out, and I will make amends.
But I suspect that’s not what you want, is it? I suspect that you, along with many others who are enraptured by the easy money that information marketing offers, and who benefit from the lawless Wild West marketplace, don’t want to see standards, integrity, honesty.. Those pesky things just get in the way of shifting more shit, don’t they?
And anyone who has anything to say about it is instantly branded a hater, negative, jealous of success, blah blah blah… I don’t buy it. I respect your opinions, and I absolutely respect and defend your right to voice them. But I disagree fundamentally over the issue of whether marketers’ tactics should be questioned in public. Happy to agree to disagree on that.
If you’ve read my post all the way through, you’ll have seen this:
All strength to the doers, to the innovators, to the people who get off their arses and make the world a better place. All I’m trying to do here is to help keep my fellow entrepreneurs and investors honest.
This issue obviously raises some critical points, and it directly opens up the topic which has bothered me ever since I had the first inkling that this Internet community is a revolution, and a game changing innovation.
This topic is the essential nature of ‘Sales’ online. We have seen over the past 20 years many players emerge and offer miraculous solutions to the primary objective of: How ordinary people can leverage the internet to change their lives, and sell enormous volumes of “whatever it is”‘
I have learned a lot, and witnessed a lot of fast acting innovators obviously make a lot of money from people out there who just want to participate and gain the advantage of Internet Marketing.
But for many of them, it is way too difficult to gain the skills, so they are always open to ‘technical wizardry’-that product which will open the magic gate to ‘Oz’ and enable them to retire on their yacht while the money piles up in their Cayman Islands bank accounts 😉
So I think it is a binary thing, digital naivety, and basic human greed which fuels this pernicious ‘Wild West’ unregulated chicanery.
I’m with you Ben on this one. Integrity and ethics are not just idealistic objectives, they are the code by which seek to live and act.
Copy cannot be produced by software, there are no short cuts to ‘Quality’, perhaps eventually the natural process of experience will see the internet marketers who prey on the innate desire for easy wealth die out.
In any case, good on you for calling ‘B.S on this, Click Funnels is obviously very popular and has a well funded marketing campaign, but it troubles me on some level.
I remember being very off put by that webinar. It has actually turned me off to everything Russell Brunson, maybe it was just the enthusiasm in his voice while he lied about copywriting.}
Because here’s something I’ve noticed about copy-software. Whenever it comes to the copy ABOUT the copy-script, there’s usually authentic copy that was clearly written by a trained writer.
For example in the Funnel Scripts webinar, they show you the fill in the blanks.
And then they fill in those blanks with real copy which required skilled human effort to write.
(And certainly didn’t get puked out by some machine.)
So when you put in good copy, which will then fill in the blanks with good copy.
You look at the end result which is good copy. But the part that made it good copy, wasn’t the software, or the script, but the unique input of the skilled writer.
Basically if the writer was shit, the software couldn’t save them.
This is something that is often overlooked, and clearly never pointed out during the presentations.
-Andy
P.S.
One time I saw a facebook ad selling copy-software (I forget exactly what product specifically.) – and I posted a question that read “Did you use the software to write this facebook ad?”
The question was ignored, and then deleted.
WOW! that was an interesting debate, but hey everyone is entitled to their take on things, so moving forward. I actually attended the webinar and although I am far from a marketing guru, I immediately noticed that this is apart of click-funnel and I asked a question that never got answered by Russell.
I am interested in pre-built sales funnel copy and blue prints that I can use as a guide. I did much research and found that Insta Builder 2.0 and Thrive could work for me as a newbie.
I would say that my headlines and all content would need to match my target audience which I think myself or anyone else could figure out. The bottom line is at least if I try alongside of some pre-built templates I may one day be a copy writing pro “at least” to do what need to be done for my business.
Yes I agree it will take time, but I think that is the best process “learning & growing”. I also believe that the more a person learns their audience- that becomes their guide to writing content that captures that target audience. I have found that when we opt for complete quick fixes we never really learn how to do things on our own nor do we ever really learn our business.
Let’s say that Funnel-Script crashes and they take it off the market, so for all those that built their whole business from that software are wondering what the next steps are, although I would hope they were smart enough to learn from the templates enough that they can finally write their own copy, “Just Saying”.
This is just my 2 cents as a newbie to marketing funnels.
Thank you so much Ben for this post. As a copywriter, it takes 20-40 hours to do RESEARCH alone for a long-form sales copy. And it takes 3-4 weeks to write a really good sales page. There will be no software or system that can humanise and speak to the target audience’s pain points.
It’s not like you can write a novel using just a software.
I should start this out with “Thanks, Captain Obvious,” but obviously the truth is not obvious to everyone out there. Like my last client, who said he didn’t need my services anymore, because a firm in India had told him they could write copy as part of their IT services. Besides, he added, “People don’t read copy anyway.” The truth is anyone can write “copy.” But as a successful copywriter for more than 40 years, with billions of product sold and more than 100 awards, I’m telling you copy is not copy unless it touches a relevant emotion in the reader/viewer/whatever. And it’s not good copy unless it motivates him/her/it to do something about it. No software can do that. No software will ever be able to do that. So… Phooey on this Funnel shit or anything else that says it will. However, it opens a door… I’m just starting to build a website at rentarewriter.com, because all this software written copy is going to need some drastic rewriting. Silk purse out of sow’s ear, maybe? Anyway, thanks for the article.
I am so glad I did a little research before I dropped a hundred bucks on Closers Copy. I, for some reason, thought it would pertussis make me a better copywriter. Give me tools I didn’t have. Makes it easier to get it right. But now I know there is no way way to get it right. It’s work. Period. And work I happen to love. Besides, from what I’ve been told I’m pretty good already. Thanks for the savings!